<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Oui Hamid mais les hôpitaux Publics reçoivent des MIGAC pour rembourser les examens Hors Nomenclature<div class="">Ce qui n’est pas le cas en pratique en activité hors public…</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Dr Amaria</div><div class="">Le Havre</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">Le 6 mai 2016 à 08:05, NEFTI Hamid <<a href="mailto:HaNEFTI@ch-macon.fr" class="">HaNEFTI@ch-macon.fr</a>> a écrit :</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">Une façon de régler ce problème serait de faire les analyses lors d'une hospitalisation de jour ou même d'une consultation. C'est ce que nous faisons.</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">Les labos des hôpitaux (publics) ne chipotent pas trop et, qui plus est, n'ont pas le droit de facturer les examens hors nomenclature.</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">Cdt</div><p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=""></p><div id="Signature" style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=""><div name="divtagdefaultwrapper" style="margin: 0px; font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=""><div style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 13px;" class=""><div class=""><font face="Tahoma" size="2" class=""><strong class="">Dr Hamid NEFTI</strong></font></div><div class=""><font face="tahoma" size="1" class=""><em class="">Praticien Hospitalier</em></font></div><div class=""><font face="tahoma" size="1" class="">Néphrologie et Dialyse</font></div><font size="1" class=""></font><div class=""><font face="tahoma" size="1" class="">Centre Hospitalier</font></div><font size="1" class=""></font><div class=""><font face="tahoma" size="1" class="">71 000 MACON</font></div><div class=""><font face="tahoma" size="2" class=""><a tabindex="0" id="NoLP" href="mailto:hanefti@ch-macon.fr" target="" class="">hanefti@ch-macon.fr</a></font></div></div></div></div><div dir="auto" style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); color: rgb(33, 33, 33);" class=""><hr tabindex="-1" style="width: 1016.25px; display: inline-block;" class=""><div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr" class=""><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size: 11pt;" class=""><b class="">De :</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Renaliste <<a href="mailto:renaliste-bounces@nephrodial.org" class="">renaliste-bounces@nephrodial.org</a>> de la part de Pierre-yves <<a href="mailto:py.durand@orange.fr" class="">py.durand@orange.fr</a>><br class=""><b class="">Envoyé :</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>jeudi 5 mai 2016 13:08<br class=""><b class="">À :</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Liste des néphrologues francophones<br class=""><b class="">Objet :</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Renaliste] Fwd: nomenclature et clairance</font><div class=""> </div></div><div class=""><div class="">bonjour,</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">cette info est étonnante car les dernières recommandations 2010/2011 sont basées sur les moyennes des clairances urée+créat comme index d'adéquation en DP. Et comment calculer le KT/V en DP sans ce dosage ?</div><div class="">L'origine de cette info vient-elle de la HAS ou de la CNAM ?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Pierre-Yves Durand</div><div class="">Vannes<br class=""><br class="">envoyé par iPhone </div><div class=""><br class="">Le 5 mai 2016 à 10:47, Knefati <<a href="mailto:yaknef@orange.fr" class="">yaknef@orange.fr</a>> a écrit :<br class=""><br class=""></div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="">Bonjour </div><div class="">Oui il y a un problème de dosage de l'urée dans les urines devenu selon la nomenclature "obsolète" et non remboursé. Sa réalisation devient depuis début 2016 très aléatoire. </div><div class="">Je ne comprends pas pourquoi cette décision qui perturbe la gestion de l'insuffisance rénale aiguë et l'estimation des apports protidique, en plus des évaluations de l'épuration.</div><div class="">Nos biologistes ont accepté l'exception pour les patients en DP...</div><div class="">Notre société savante est informée ? </div><div class="">Bonne journée </div><div class="">Yannick Knefati </div><div class="">Toulon </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><br class=""><br class="">-------- Message d'origine --------<br class="">De : Angelo Testa <<a href="mailto:angelotesta44@gmail.com" class="">angelotesta44@gmail.com</a>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">Date : 05/05/2016 10:01 (GMT+01:00)<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">À : Liste des néphrologues francophones <<a href="mailto:renaliste@nephrodial.org" class="">renaliste@nephrodial.org</a>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">Objet : Re: [Renaliste] Fwd: nomenclature et clairance<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><br class=""><div dir="ltr" class="">J'ai sur mon bureau un calcul de cl créat et KT/V réalisé cette semaine par notre labo. A priori pas de nouveautés administratives en metropole mais je vais poser la question aux responsables</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote">Le 5 mai 2016 à 09:34, Christian Verger<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:c.verger@wanadoo.fr" target="_blank" class="">c.verger@wanadoo.fr</a>></span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>a écrit :<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid;"><div class="">Chers amis<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Notre collègue Fabrice F Garnier me pose cette question. Je n’ai pas cette notion, certains d’être vous seraient il au courant ?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Amicalement</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Christian Verger</div><div class=""><br class=""><div class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">Début du message réexpédié :</div><br class=""><div style="margin: 0px;" class=""><span class=""><b class="">De:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b></span><span class="">Fabrice GARNIER <<a href="mailto:fabrice.garnier@apuradapair.pf" target="_blank" class="">fabrice.garnier@apuradapair.pf</a>><br class=""></span></div><div style="margin: 0px;" class=""><span class=""><b class="">Objet:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b></span><span class=""><b class="">nomenclature et clairance</b><br class=""></span></div><div style="margin: 0px;" class=""><span class=""><b class="">Date:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b></span><span class="">4 mai 2016 21:08:24 UTC+2<br class=""></span></div><div style="margin: 0px;" class=""><span class=""><b class="">À:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b></span><span class="">"<a href="mailto:c.verger@wanadoo.fr" target="_blank" class="">c.verger@wanadoo.fr</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>(<a href="mailto:c.verger@wanadoo.fr" target="_blank" class="">c.verger@wanadoo.fr</a>)" <<a href="mailto:c.verger@wanadoo.fr" target="_blank" class="">c.verger@wanadoo.fr</a>><br class=""></span></div><br class=""><div class=""><div style="text-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; letter-spacing: normal; font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; word-spacing: 0px; white-space: normal;" class="">Bonjour Christian,</div><p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; text-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; letter-spacing: normal; font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; word-spacing: 0px; white-space: normal;" class=""> </p><div style="text-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; letter-spacing: normal; font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; word-spacing: 0px; white-space: normal;" class="">J'aurais besoin de ton avis concernant la prise en charge de l'analyse du dialysat péritonéal.</div><div style="text-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; letter-spacing: normal; font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; word-spacing: 0px; white-space: normal;" class="">Depuis 2-3 mois à priori notre système de santé (indépendant de celui de la sécurité social mais qui est bien calqué dessus) ne prendrait plus en charge les analyses biochimiques du liquide de dialyse péritonéal en le considérant comme hors-nomenclature par rapport à la prise en charge d'un insuffisant rénale terminale!!!!</div><p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; text-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; letter-spacing: normal; font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; word-spacing: 0px; white-space: normal;" class=""> </p><div style="text-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; letter-spacing: normal; font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; word-spacing: 0px; white-space: normal;" class="">Tout est possible en Polynésie et je soupçonne une "erreur" administrative...j'imagine qu'en France c'est toujours pris en charge non?</div><p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; text-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; letter-spacing: normal; font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; word-spacing: 0px; white-space: normal;" class=""> </p><div style="text-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; letter-spacing: normal; font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; word-spacing: 0px; white-space: normal;" class="">En te remerciant.</div><div style="text-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; letter-spacing: normal; font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; word-spacing: 0px; white-space: normal;" class="">Amicalement</div><p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; text-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; letter-spacing: normal; font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; word-spacing: 0px; white-space: normal;" class=""> </p><div style="text-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; letter-spacing: normal; font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; word-spacing: 0px; white-space: normal;" class=""><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class=""><font color="#000080" face="Monotype Corsiva" size="3" class="">Dr Fabrice GARNIER</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class=""><font color="#000080" face="Monotype Corsiva" size="3" class="">Néphrologue APURAD</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class=""><font color="#000080" face="Monotype Corsiva" size="3" class="">BP 330 004</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class=""><font color="#000080" face="Monotype Corsiva" size="3" class="">98711 PAEA</font></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></div><br class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">Renaliste mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:Renaliste@nephrodial.org" class="">Renaliste@nephrodial.org</a><br class=""><a href="http://nephrodial.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/renaliste" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" class="">http://nephrodial.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/renaliste</a><br class=""><br class=""></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><span class="">_______________________________________________</span><br class=""><span class="">Renaliste mailing list</span><br class=""><span class=""><a href="mailto:Renaliste@nephrodial.org" class="">Renaliste@nephrodial.org</a></span><br class=""><span class=""><a href="http://nephrodial.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/renaliste" class="">http://nephrodial.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/renaliste</a></span><br class=""></div></blockquote></div></div><span style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; 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